Does anyone have any experience with this device:  http://www.nationalinfrared.com/RAZ_IR_Infrared_Camera.php

Thanks in advance,

Stephen A. Brown
 

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IsoThermally yours,
Stephen A. Brown

Still wondering if anyone's had any working experience with this phone:  The Wuhan Guide Infrared M4.

 

Also known as the SPI RAZ-IR.

Thanks in advance, 

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IsoThermally yours,
Stephen A. Brown

You get exactly what you pay for... 

 http://www.snellinfrared.com/messageboards/wwwboard2/_view.asp?ID=1765

 
 

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Rory Paul
Independent Level II Thermographer
Barak Systems
www.baraksystems.com

I had one for a few days...it worked well but the interface to the PC was proprietary so I couldn't use the files without going through their "free" software to convert the images into JPGs.  That was a show stopper for me, as I need to be able to print quickly in the field without a PC...

 Neat unit...not sure how rugged it would be though...

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Bob Sisson
Inspections by Bob
www.inspectionsbybob.com
bob@inspectionsbybob.com

bob Sisson:

I had one for a few days...it worked well but the interface to the PC was proprietary so I couldn't use the files without going through their "free" software to convert the images into JPGs.  That was a show stopper for me, as I need to be able to print quickly in the field without a PC...

 Neat unit...not sure how rugged it would be though...

 

 My use would be for a couple of different reasons.  Having a tool to use in self-educating myself about IR, through the use of good books, this site, other sites, and private individuals and independent training.

 

Paranormal Investigation.

 

Thoughts?

 

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IsoThermally yours,
Stephen A. Brown

I might rent a unit first...

 As for paranormal, what type termperature deta's are you looking for?  This system seemed to have arround .1 deg sensitivity... there are cameras that are more sensitive... it depends on what you want..

 

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Bob Sisson
Inspections by Bob
www.inspectionsbybob.com
bob@inspectionsbybob.com

bob Sisson:

I might rent a unit first...

 As for paranormal, what type termperature deta's are you looking for?  This system seemed to have arround .1 deg sensitivity... there are cameras that are more sensitive... it depends on what you want..

 

When searching for 'temperature anomalies,' one is going to be primarily inside buildings and outside in a given area, usually surrounding the place being investigated. Since thermal amomalies cam be very slight, I think sensitivity in the hundredths (.01) range would probably be sufficient. Tenths (.1) would work, but a camera with a broad temperature range and high thermal sensitivity is desirable. Tenths would probably work for general accuracy for paranormal work, though. Most of the IR thermometers out there are in Tenths, so I suppose a camera in the same range would work. More, of course, is better.

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IsoThermally yours,
Stephen A. Brown

I don't think you will find a sub $10K camera that is much lower than tenth's.

If you want to get much better, you are going to need a much more expensive camera.

 I have seen one .08 deg, and that was at $11,490.

 You may need to go to a process camera vs a maitenance camera...

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Bob Sisson
Inspections by Bob
www.inspectionsbybob.com
bob@inspectionsbybob.com

Thermal sensitivity (or Noise Equivalent Temperature Difference NETD) is measured, theoretically, as the minimum difference in temperature between a blackbody at 30C and the (blackbody) target that can be detected. The specification is usually expressed in milli-Kelvins (mK). For example a camera that can detect a difference between 30C and 30.05C is a 50mK camera. The lower the mK number, the more sensitive the camera.

 

Most condition monitoring cameras range between 100 and 250 mK. For buildings work a sensitivity of less than 80mK is desirable. Detectors are getting better and better and many manufacturers are reporting production of 50 to 30mK cameras; they are not necessarily high priced systems either! I'm sorry but I don't know of any camera that is useful for paranormal work!

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Thermally Yours,

John
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
The Snell Group
www.thesnellgroup.com
www.thermalsolutions.org
800-636-9820

The only decent explanation of why an ir camera is useful in paranormal investigation was given on the site at some point last year. Basically it is used to try to eliminate physical phenomenon (drafts, missing insulation etc) from the equation. Personally I still think its bogus but then again is somebody wants me to check their house for wee ghosties at $300 a shot I am happy to oblige...

 

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Rory Paul
Independent Level II Thermographer
Barak Systems
www.baraksystems.com

Thanks for the technical information.  It will be useful in my upcoming training.

As for what kind of camera is useful for paranormal work, given the general amateur nature of the discipline--save for specialists with years of experience and those amateurs working with them--any decent camera will probably do.

I may like to be more precise than other amateurs, and want to provide something a cut above the average.  I like the flip-camera because of it's size, video-to-usb direct capability, and on-board analysis in a unit this size.  I would prefer that the visual and IR portions of the camera utilized true fusion-based technology, like most of the new FLIR's and Flukes, JenOptik's, etc.

If this goes into a business modality in which I make a living this way, more than one camera is desired for redundancy, but I've already covered that in another response.

Again, thank you for this forum and your helpful comments and suggestions.  They are most welcome.

Best regards,

Stephen A. Brown
 

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IsoThermally yours,
Stephen A. Brown

The elimination of physical elements is essential to paranormal investigation, which has it's own set of rules for operation, just like any other type of inspection.

To say that one type of thing is bogus, however, does not negate the thousands of experiences reported by people every year.

Sometimes, IR picks up something that affects the temperature of materials (walls, roofs, cinder blocks in basements, sheetrock/drywall, wood, etc.) in residential and commercial buildings), or other things entirely; perhaps things are either reflections or elements adjacent to the IR spectrum--harmonics, if you will--that show up on the screen during a scan.

I dunno.  That's why it's such a fascinating field to me; it's still highly speculative and in need of direct, physical confrontation and classification.  Go on out and scan a few houses with a reputable group of people who do that type of thing.  I think you'd be surprised.

Best regards,

Stephen A. Brown 

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IsoThermally yours,
Stephen A. Brown

Let me just clarify something. I am open to the possibility of there being things in this world beyond our senses. What I am saying is bogus is the precept that it would show up in ir. Why if the average person on a daily basis cannot see them in the visual spectrum would they show up in the thermal why not in the UV, X-Ray or Microwave?

Stephen from your post and I quote " Sometimes, IR picks up something that affects the temperature of materials (walls, roofs, cinder blocks in basements, sheetrock/drywall, wood, etc.) in residential and commercial buildings), or other things entirely; perhaps things are either reflections or elements adjacent to the IR spectrum--harmonics, if you will--that show up on the screen during a scan" you have first hand experience of using a thermal imaging camera to detect the presence of the paranormal?

If this is the case please share your imagery with us all and convince us of the merits of using ir for this type of application. I suspect however that you have never actually had the opportunity to use a thermal imager in this context or any other. I really suggest that you put your money where your mouth is go out and buy a camera get some training and get to work using it because from your posts you appear to be a webspert of note.    

And with regards to me going out and working with a reputable group sure no problem just point them in my direction I have the equipment and an open mind, however I warn you it would be approached just like I do any inspection systematically and scientifically.            

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Rory Paul
Independent Level II Thermographer
Barak Systems
www.baraksystems.com

Thanks Rory. I too owe Stephen an apology for being quick to dismiss the possible value of IR in this situation. While I don't have first hand experience with paranormal activities, I'm not so close minded as to say "IMPOSSIBLE!" The reason I spoke quickly is that I'm really, really tired of folks using this remarkable technology to scam others and I've seen too many instance of this with "ghost hunting" and other such activities. As Rory, suggest, if an scientific, independent test is devised, I'll be right behind him in line to try my camera.

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Thermally Yours,

John
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
The Snell Group
www.thesnellgroup.com
www.thermalsolutions.org
800-636-9820

Here is a prime example of why people "think" that an ir camera can detect the paranormal. The two "hunters" should not be allowed to operate a thermal imager. FLIR should have made them take their logo off its so embarrassing.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clIyxXaNYcc&eurl=http://www.glamorganparanormal.co.uk/Ghosts-On-Tape.htm

Any trained thermographer  with a level I can explain everything they saw on this video in terms of differences in emissivity and reflection.

 

 

 

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Rory Paul
Independent Level II Thermographer
Barak Systems
www.baraksystems.com