Hello All,

I am trying to find out what level of liability insurance a typical independant thermographer

carries to be covered sufficiently for electrical substation and manufacturing surveys.  I thought

since I will not be removing covers, it would be minimal, but my agent says $1 mil is 

required at many industrial sites.   If anyone has any input on the usual requirements, 

I would appreciate any advice.  Anyone located in Texas would be especially appreciated

as the regulations here might be different than those in the northeast.   Any advice on PPE

requirements for electrical surveys would also be helpful.   I know I need insulated gloves

(to be tested/replaced every 6 mos.),  hardhat, A/Flash faceshield, FR shirt, FR pants, insulated

boots and goggles.  Would it be more practical to get a 50-65 cal suit just to cover ALL

situations, or is that overkill if you can stand 4-10 ft. from the object of interest?

 

Thanks for any advice offered,

Kevin 

Almost all of my clients require $2 mil for liability insurance, generally an errors and omissions policy.  I also carry a rider on my policy to cover the replacement cost of a camera if it gets lost, damaged, or stolen. Many clients will also require a $1 mil auto liability coverage if you will be doing any driving on their property, even the parking lot.  The liability policy will not cover any damages or injuries if you take a hands on approach to panel removal or circuit checking. 

I generally wear FR PPE's without the gloves - again - no hands on work.  When doing substations for utilities, I do have a 40 cal suit for those inspections. Even at that, I stand back and off to the side, at a safe distance, until it's time to do the scan. 

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Bob Winship
Independent Level III Thermographer
St. Louis, MO
rwinship@midwestir.com

Bob's suggestions about insurance are common. Many customers now require $2 million and many insurance agents bridle at that! You should also consider errors and omissions insurance; it will be pricey but cheaper than a lawsuit. I would URGE you to discuss all of these issue openly and honestly with both your legal and insurance advisors.

  Regarding PPE, I would strongly suggest you get formal training on NFPA70E so you KNOW what is needed. Many companies now offer good seminars and it is vital that you not only know all the issues but also can document your training. The new version of NFPA70E pretty clearly spells out what is required for thermography work; unfortunately it is more complicated than I can explain on a messageboard and, in the end, it is up to you and your customers to "get it right" for your situations.

Let me know how else we can assist you in doing safe, effective and profitable work! 

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Thermally Yours,

John
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
The Snell Group
www.thesnellgroup.com
www.thermalsolutions.org
800-636-9820

There is not really a standard for this, it will depend on who you work for, and what you are doing for them. Here in Ireland the normal level is Euro 2M, public service contracts require a minimum of Euro 6.5M and large corporations require up to Euro12.5M. I am sure there will be variations in the USA also, as I deal with a lot of American corporations.

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Bob Berry
BINDT, IRT Level 3 EL, Level 3 CV (ISO 18436)
Thermal Vision
8 Old Fair Green
Dunboyne
Co Meath
Ireland
bob"at"thermalvision"dot"ie
www.thermalvision.ie

My insurance jumped to almost $2,000 per month.  I never had any problems, I just can not afford this $24,000 a year bill.  I tried all kinds of companies from local to Loyds of London with the same results. You better budget for the type of work you want to perform.

@indemand

Ouch...what are you doing that requires 24K a year. You can get the basic for around $1800 a year although I admit it is limited and you could probably drive a buss through the loop holes.

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Rory Paul
Independent Level II Thermographer
Barak Systems
www.baraksystems.com

I am a home inspector in michigan.  I had general liability and E&O.  I tried with the same, and different company.  Everyone is about the same.  I can not think of all of the companies but Allen, ect. comes to mind.  The rates were about $1,500 per month before, and now almost $2,000.  That is 1/2 of my income.  I will do without the insurance.  I am incorperated with all assets removed.  I still carry coverage for damage and theft for my IR camera.

Also note I had $5,000 deductable.

Your coverage sounds more reasonable.  Do you perform industrial electrical surveys?

I would guess the guy that pays $2K p/month is paying for E&O coverage and liability.

Maybe the liability is higher working in a residence?  I do not intend to make ANY

suggestions about resolution of any problems, instead I will just report my findings and

leave it up to the maintenace team to repair the problem.  I am not a trained electrician

and it seems like a slippery slope to make repair suggestions, unless you are an

electrician.  Of course, I will offer to come back and verify the fix resolved the reported

problems.  When a newbie independent thermographer is doing the mandatory field surveys

required to get your level 1 certification, do you perform the surveys for a greatly reduced

price?  It seems the certification field requirements are geared for employees that work in a

PPM dept.at a plant, etc., not for independents.   Any thoughts are appreciated!

 

Kevin

 

You may want the general liability, my coverage was for $1,000,000. The E&O was for I think $250,000.  Just out of hand.  This did not include insuring the camera.  Your inspection site may require liability, and your client E&O even if you do not report. 

Interesting thread.

I am starting a small company for office buidling electrical IR scans, I have had a really difficult time finding someone who will cover me for errors and omissions. Any recommendation?

 

JCBW

Try your general liability company.  Try Allen Insurance, try Loyds of London.  My findings as you can see were not working out for me.  Insurance is not required in my area, and as my counsel says, "if you have nothing into the company they cant take anything."

If you have no assets to lose, you would still have to defend yourself in court. If you carry any amount of insurance and are sued, your insurance company will pay to defend you, usually up to the limit of the insurance. Even $500,000 will buy a lot of lawyering.

 

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Brad Cook
Building Performance Services LLC
BPI Accredited
Warren, Vermont
Level I Thermographer
"Always look at the WHOLE picture"
"The more you look, the more you see"
"You can never take enough pictures"

Thank you for the tips. I am now in contact with  Allen. Anyone has a good contact/ sales agent for Lloyd's of London?