Hello im new to this IR TALK forum.  I have a 2006 FLIR B2 I got it used. And i just love the camera. like a new set of eyes.

This past year we got a new school down the street from my house. I took a few shots and located what looks like a moisture problem with the stucco. See the IR photo i have attached.  Please advise of my finding.  this was taken arond 6:00 pm just after sunset. This is the west face of the school. It was around 62 d. Outside at the time of the shot.  I set the alarm in Green with the iron pl.

Then next question i have is what or how should it inform the school board that the new school has stucco leaks!

Thanks for your time.  looking forward to your coments.

Will 

 

 

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WILL STRONG

Good morning.  Interesting picture.  I'm not an expert in these things so will defer comment to those who are.  I do, however have a few questions.  This picture was taken just after sunset - was the dewpoint or relative humidity available?  Did you happen to have a moisture meter handy to confirm the relative moisture levels in the areas of concern?  If so, what did it show?  Any recent precipitation or other external source of moisture? 

 Thanks

-John

Thanks for the reply.  Ok what is a dewpoint ? and how will that efect the photo?  the only setting i adjusted to the camera was the temp to bring the walls into contras.

Im new to this. But with all the studing i had done It looks like the water in getting behing the suucco from the upper walls and roofing.   Idid not use a moisture meter on the walls. If you look at the temps for the green areas 70.3  and the other areas of the wall 58.8

 We have had no rain for weeks. no sprinklers system in the area or any air con. units.  Just an exposed wall.

Will 

 

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WILL STRONG

Hi Will.  Dewpoint is the temperature at which dew (or frost) will form on a surface.   It's normally below ambient, however as ambient falls toward dew point, relative humidity climbs.  When the two match, depending on the air quality and wind conditions, you get dew or frost and can also get fog.

As different materials cool differently, it is common to see condensation form on some areas ahead of others.  Same story with surfaces that are exposed to solar gain longer into the evening than others, or exposed to different cooling conditions, such as a slight breeze.  I see this very frequently in my line of work.

 As I mentioned, I am no expert on building inspection.  The precipitation you received could have altered results.  It might be worthwhile to choose a different set of conditions for the repeat shots.  Others here will surely have suggestions as to what you are seeing in your picture and what you may want to look at next.

 Cheers

-John

Sorry this posted twice

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Al Kravitz
Roof Consultants, Inc.
alkrav@roofconsultantsinc.com
www.roofconsultantsinc.com

Stop the train wreck before it happens.

Contacting the school board could and most likely open a can of worms that you would be liable for unless you have solid evidence of there being a problem.  General contractors love to sue if there is a cost to them proving you wrong.

The image you show could be the result of reflections off the light colored stucco.  It could be inconsistent density of the coatings. Both real stucco and artificial are hand applied and if you have ever trowled anything on you know the desity is thicker at the start of the stroke and thinner at the end.

When I do a scan of stucco there is a three part process.

1. Use the ir scan as a base line.

2. Verify with a moisture meter ( non destructive)

3. Verify again by taking samples from the materials (destructive)

If you don't know much about the application and system types of stucco both real and EIFS I suggest you learn.  The exterior design institute offers classes that can help.

There are some images of stucco problems on my website www.roofconsultantsinc.com that you can view.

Al Kravitz

Roof Consultants, Inc.

Certified EIFS inspector.

Level 1  and Building Application courses completed.

 

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Al Kravitz
Roof Consultants, Inc.
alkrav@roofconsultantsinc.com
www.roofconsultantsinc.com

Thanks Al.  Im not sure we have a reflection problem. I do plan to take a few more shot and post them for review. as to the sue me thing.  I can't just walk away from this if it is a problem for the new school. I wil need to find away to take care of that.

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WILL STRONG

Al what kind of a moisture meter do you use ? I have a TRAMEX Encounter Plus contact pad unit type.  No pins.

Please list your best unit as i looking into getting a new one for the hip bag.

Thanks

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WILL STRONG

Hi Will,

If you don’t know enough about this, you should not give ANY advice to the school. They may appreciate your advice initially, but if you are wrong (and I cannot tell from you image if you are right or wrong), and they start remedial work, and then find out you are wrong, then you WILL pay. If not financially, your reputation will certainly suffer. So yes, you can walk away.

If you were sure this was dampness, then you would not have posted the image, so you have doubts yourself. It worries me that you are doing building thermography and you do not know what dew point is! I do not know if you have had any formal training, but I do recommend that you get some (if you have not had any).  

I have to say that there is a growing trend on this and other message boards of people posting images for others to do the analysis. I don’t really mind this as we all come across things we are unsure of, and it is nice to get (and give) help and support. I do however feel that some are trying use message boards as their only means of training, and this does worry me. (I am not saying that this is what you are trying to do Will, it is just a general comment)

 

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Bob Berry
BINDT, IRT Level 3 EL, Level 3 CV (ISO 18436)
Thermal Vision
8 Old Fair Green
Dunboyne
Co Meath
Ireland
bob@thermalvision.ie
www.thermalvision.ie

I use a Tramex wet wall meter and a Delmhorst BD-8 with 4 inch pins.

The Tramex needs to be calibrated often on the job site and as with any other meter you will get false positives form wire mesh and fasteners behind the coatings.

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Al Kravitz
Roof Consultants, Inc.
alkrav@roofconsultantsinc.com
www.roofconsultantsinc.com

Im glad i posted this IR pohto and got all the input.  Im sure that this is a moisture problem and i just cant walk away and find out some time down the road that a biger problem has come to past and that i had info of it some time back.  Even if i need to send this to the board with no name attached is better then just walking away.   I cant go over to the school and start probing and making holes with the schools without authorization.

What to do?  What to do?

 

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WILL STRONG

Will, was the visible photo in your last post taken when the IR picture was?  If not, what time frame separated them?

 

-John

The IR was last Monday eve and the standard photo was today. 

We just got a bit of rain in last night.   First rain in weeks.

If you look at the standard photo you can see water marks from the roof run off in the upper corner of the entry wall and the main wall and they extend down into the area of green in my IR shot.

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WILL STRONG

This is another shot of the area. looks like we don't have any tool on the forum to point to an areas in a photos. See the corner of the entry roof and the MAIN wall. Note: the water marks down the wall.  not the best focus on this one. Sorry about that.

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WILL STRONG

First, I need to say that I agree with Bob Berry about misuse of the forums, the need for training, and concern about doing building thermography without an adequate background in it. 

 Based on the description in the OP, the wall was exposed to sunshine for the hours preceding the IR image.  If that is the case, then the marked areas are NOT wet.  Wet areas under a thermal loading scenario would be the coolest in the image.  What they may be is delaminated, which would show as the hottest in a thermal loading scenario. 

Jack

 

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Jack M. Kleinfeld, P.E.
Kleinfeld Technical Services, Inc.
Bronx, NY
718-884-6644
JKEngineer@KleinfeldTechnical.com
come see what we can do for you: http://www.KleinfeldTechnical.com