I have no experience in the fields of Home Inspection, IR Imaging, or Home Energy Audits but I have been very successful marketing other startups that I had no experience in. With that in mind I have decided to look further into the field of Home Energy Audits because I feel confident in my ability to successfully market it by leveraging the marketing dollars and content space from my other businesses and my current client list.

 

I’m not asking for opinions on whether or not people think there is the opportunity to make money, I’m going to assume I can and go forward. I have seen on other posts that it is not so much about experience working with thermal imaging, I can learn that. And more about networking / marketing, that part I know. I do plan on taking some classes ASAP so that I can get a good working knowledge of thermal imaging and building performance and the applications so I can learn more about what to ask and what I can expect to accomplish.

 

The two main concepts I’m trying to figure out are:

 

Manpower:

I currently market and sell on a national level, to most effectively dovetail the advertising I would need to start the energy audit business on a national level as well. I would like to limit the expense of hiring a staff of 100 or more thermographers if possible. Is there a way to outsource this by tapping into a list of certified energy auditors or home inspectors with Ir cameras? If yes, here are some questions:

 

What would be considered a reasonable pay structure? Bear in mind, this is for time only. It should be understood that this is only for those who already have a camera and their own transportation.

Would it be possible to set up a standard fee in order to simplify, one set amount or a couple of amounts based on # of levels or square footage?

Is anybody currently doing this? Are any of you willing to do work on a contract basis to supplement your current business or is this unappealing?

Branding, Quality Control & Uniform product:

If not using my own employees does anyone have any suggestions on how I can make sure every customer get’s the same brand experience i.e. all reports look the same, all brand logos are used, add-on marketing is completed etc. Is there a prominent software solution out there for the “Home Energy Auditor”?  that most people interested in doing this would already have along with their camera or that I could provide at a reasonable expense?

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions. I have a ton of other questions but I’ll wait until after I take a class or two, for now I cant help trying to nail down the concept a bit better. Sorry if any of these questions seem stupid or offend for some reason.

---

Greg Stockton
Stockton Infrared Thermographic Services, Inc.
8472 Adams Farm Road
Randleman, NC 27317-7331
(800) 248-SCAN (toll-free)
(336) 498-GREG (voice)
(336) 689-3658 (cell)
www.StocktonInfrared.com

Your questions are not stupid and anyone who takes offense has probably had similar dreams in the past! I welcome this kind of new vision and also appreciate that you know the road ahead is not an easy one. Clearly there is a need. The attached shows a problem with missing insulation in a commercial building that has been there for 20 years. Over that time the cost of excessive energy for area could easily have paid for your services.

 

One of the major problems with outsourcing is assuring quality work. Unfortunately there are not existing companies, ours included, that have the employees and foot print to handle work like this. That would suggest considering a group of consultants and that brings with it the reality of a whole host of issues about uniformity and quality. I don't mean to imply, in any way, that Greg may not have solved these problems with his organizational approach; only that there are very real issues even with all personnel are employees!

 

At the present time in the US qualification and certification is a task of the employer, despite the fact that many thermographers say they are "certified." I'd be happy to discuss how the American Society for Nondestructive Testing (ASNT) addresses these issues and how that approach might support your work.

 

RESNET and BPI, two well respected building energy related organizations, are presently working together with a group of practicing thermographers to develop uniform certification and inspection guidelines but these are, realistically, a year away. Both have made significant investments in methods to qualify building auditors and other professionals.

 

Several Home Inspection organizations may also provide a path forward although I don't think this option is a strong as RESNET/BPI.

 

Regarding fees, you can do the math. For this kind of work you would need a fairly high-end camera (320x240 array, color, NETD of 60mK or better) AND a person who was HIGHLY qualified. If you could deliver significant work to them on a regular basis, you could probably find folks who might successfully add it into an existing package of services they already provide. To have this be the only work they did might be challenging.

 

It IS possible to set up a standard fee based on metrics like floor size but expect that you will lose on some jobs and do well on others. Our work is highly weather dependent. 

 

There is some fine work being done in building energy audits including by many who read this messageboard. For new construction (at least before the housing crash), many were using IR and blower doors to qualify energy use and ensure overall building quality. The same happens for many existing homes where more and more renovators and insulators use these two tools to ensure quality and buffer themselves from the inevitable callbacks. IR is being widely, and very successfully, used in the low-income weatherization program in many states.

 

As Greg suggests, uniform reports are possible, even if challenging. Of greater concern to me would be insuring a uniformly high quality inspection protocol, especially given the diverse group of buildings we must routinely inspect or audit. It can be done but it is not like making "widgets."

 

Feel free to call me if you'd like to talk further by phone.  I hope to see you at an upcoming course as well. 

---

Thermally Yours,

John
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
The Snell Group
www.thesnellgroup.com
www.thermalsolutions.org
800-636-9820

Greg,

Thanks for the response. I was pretty sure the answer would be yes to both. Your website was one of the first ones I came across when I started researching the idea, it looks like you guys do some pretty amazing stuff. That was actually one of my concerns and one of the reasons I made the comment about not wanting to offend anybody in my original post, I don't want to be in the IR world what Foxton's / YHD is in the real estate world-- Low class providers of low class service at discounted price.

It's funny that you made the 100' boat comment, boating/fishing is how I spend all my free time. 26' regulator built right down there in NC is enough for now, and if gas doesn't get any cheaper it will be enough for a long time.

John,

 Thanks for the thought out response, your site was also one that I had been looking at as wells as Gregs.  I appreciate your willingness to give me some time on the phone, I'd be sure to keep it brief. I would like to give you a better idea of what I'm thinking so that you can give me a reccomendation as to which class to take first and some thoughts on the best way to get some camera time in advance so that I can be more familiar with camera and get the most out of the class, possibly rental or purchase something used. I will attempt to reach you today and if you are not available here is me cell # so that you can contact me at a time that is convenient for you.

 John "Patrick" Coughlin

908-902-6722

I'm involved with what you are talking about and have had simular conversations with people.I have a  branding concept metric in mind  and something different that no other IR company  has .

Call me ,my site has my info

www.infraredsurvey.com

 

---

John Cannamela
ASNT II Vibration/ Level II Thermographer
HVAC Journeyman
Owner
http://www.infraredsurvey.com

I am considering residential and building inspections as well in Oklahoma.  Here, home inspectors must be licensed by the OK HealthCare Authority.  You cannot represent yourself as a home inspector without training, certification and licensure.  I am questioning the Authority as well as the OK State Inspectors association if it would be acceptable to provide IR inspections of the home/building as a subcontractor of the licensed inspector without licensure.  I am not interested in going through the complete home inspector training through licensure program. 

This is a question you will have to answer with every state program administrator you wish to do business with.  There are no Federal regulations regarding home inspections, only state regulations with the support of the state home inspectors association.  Search the National Home Inspectors Association for more information.  They also list links to each state set of regulations.

---

Bill Galbraith

To add to what Bill said...

There is no advocate organization for IR thermographers at all, much less building thermographers. This issue came up at SPIE Thermosense two weeks ago. There is no organization that lobbies for thermographers, no organization that "licenses" thermographers, no board of thermographers and no one set of standards that thermographers follow.

That the way it is at present.

Greg S.

---

Greg Stockton
Stockton Infrared Thermographic Services, Inc.
8472 Adams Farm Road
Randleman, NC 27317-7331
(800) 248-SCAN (toll-free)
(336) 498-GREG (voice)
(336) 689-3658 (cell)
www.StocktonInfrared.com

Bill,

 I think it's important to understand that what I am trying to do is not a home inspection and I would need to be very clear when marketing my intended services about that.

When a person hires a home inspector it's usually to consider the purchase of a new home, in most cases the largest financial decision they will ever make. If you plan on being a subcontractor of the inspector then you are in essence becoming a part of that transaction, your input wether positive or negative even if it only applies to interpretation of the thermal image could have huge consequences to the person who in the end is relying on the report.

If it were me I would not be comfortable doing what you suggest. Even as it applies to Home Energy Audits there is a fiduciary responsability on the part of the person performing the audit, although in this case it is far less than that of a home inspector.

Greg Stockton:

To add to what Bill said...

There is no advocate organization for IR thermographers at all, much less building thermographers. This issue came up at SPIE Thermosense two weeks ago. There is no organization that lobbies for thermographers, no organization that "licenses" thermographers, no board of thermographers and no one set of standards that thermographers follow.

That the way it is at present.

Greg S.

 

...but there are still many thermographers who have taken the time and expense to set up certification program that comply, to one degree or another, with the standards and guidelines of the American Society for Nondestructive Testing (ASNT). Such programs are recognized internationally and have tremendous practical and economic value for insuring quality. Also, there are several excellent standards from ISO and ASTM related to building inspections—certainly a useful starting point.

 

Let's not think we have to re-invent the wheel when we have a pretty darned good one right in our backyards.  

---

Thermally Yours,

John
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
The Snell Group
www.thesnellgroup.com
www.thermalsolutions.org
800-636-9820

John, Greg....All

I think this is clearly an area that needs improvement. As an independant thermographer I would have to certify myself to be ASNT certified......how much weight does that carry? I think I'm going to skip level III & certify myself as Level IV or V as you can see it holds no value. It seems to me that IR has fallen in between the cracks making it difficult at best with everyone citing all these different organizations: ASNT,ISO,ASTM,NETA,NFPA and I'm sure I'm missing a few more. All the traditional NDT practices if I'm not mistaken fall soley under the ASNT umbrella whether its eddy current,xray, PT, mag partical, etc. I don't know what the real answer is but the current system/methology is all over the place making it hard to get on board.

JG

  

---

Jeff Gadd
Vision Infrared Services
www.visioninfrared.com

To "pcop" -- I also am a marketing/general business guy exploring the use of IR in the building energy audit business. 

I'm in CT, and although my business background is international in scope, I'm thinking about a regional business, more hands-on than the strategy I'm inferring from your initial post.  Perhaps there is synergy, to use the over-used buzzword.  Let me know if you'd like to talk....

Forum: Applications
Posted: Mar 5, 2:44 PM [GMT -5]
Post Subject: Help with Home Energy Audit business idea
Post author: pcogs

---

I have no experience in the fields of Home Inspection, IR Imaging, or Home Energy Audits but I have been very successful marketing other startups that I had no experience in. With that in mind I have decided to look further into the field of Home Energy Audits because I feel confident in my ability to successfully market it by leveraging the marketing dollars and content space from my other businesses and my current client list.

 

I’m not asking for opinions on whether or not people think there is the opportunity to make money, I’m going to assume I can and go forward. I have seen on other posts that it is not so much about experience working with thermal imaging, I can learn that. And more about networking / marketing, that part I know. I do plan on taking some classes ASAP so that I can get a good working knowledge of thermal imaging and building performance and the applications so I can learn more about what to ask and what I can expect to accomplish.

 

The two main concepts I’m trying to figure out are:

 

Manpower:

I currently market and sell on a national level, to most effectively dovetail the advertising I would need to start the energy audit business on a national level as well. I would like to limit the expense of hiring a staff of 100 or more thermographers if possible. Is there a way to outsource this by tapping into a list of certified energy auditors or home inspectors with Ir cameras? If yes, here are some questions:

 

What would be considered a reasonable pay structure? Bear in mind, this is for time only. It should be understood that this is only for those who already have a camera and their own transportation.

Would it be possible to set up a standard fee in order to simplify, one set amount or a couple of amounts based on # of levels or square footage?

Is anybody currently doing this? Are any of you willing to do work on a contract basis to supplement your current business or is this unappealing?

Branding, Quality Control & Uniform product:

If not using my own employees does anyone have any suggestions on how I can make sure every customer get’s the same brand experience i.e. all reports look the same, all brand logos are used, add-on marketing is completed etc. Is there a prominent software solution out there for the “Home Energy Auditor”?  that most people interested in doing this would already have along with their camera or that I could provide at a reasonable expense?

Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions. I have a ton of other questions but I’ll wait until after I take a class or two, for now I cant help trying to nail down the concept a bit better. Sorry if any of these questions seem stupid or offend for some reason.

sorry for the typo.  yesterday's msg is for pcogs.

I'm always interested in exploring ideas. Feel free to e-mail me with more info on what you have in mind and I'll give you my cell.