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Xformer Bushing

Last post 09-28-2008, 7:31 PM by Cary. 12 replies.
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  •  02-11-2008, 11:23 PM 1152

    Xformer Bushing

    Attachment: Bushing.JPG

    Hi,

    I've posted this same image previously. Now it is some 6month later & the temp rise has climbed another 7 degrees F. Delta is now 27+ and I don't know what else I can do to alert these folks of the impending doom. I've suggested DGA until they can take it down for emergency repairs........which they have done nothing. What else can I do as this is a ticking time bomb?

     Thanks,



    Jeff Gadd
    Vision Infrared Services
    www.visioninfrared.com
  •  02-12-2008, 4:06 AM 1153 in reply to 1152

    • Cary is not online. Last active: 03-14-2010, 10:01 AM Cary
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 07-27-2007
    • Owens Corning Plant#1571
    • Posts 75

    Re: Xformer Bushing

    Attachment: LEWA.jpg

    I know your pain. I traveled to another plant of ours because of new equipment that was installed. I was observing a set of pumps that run around $33k per. I advised the bean counter that there was a problem with one and he said that they were just rebuilt a couple of weeks prior, no way! Well, two days later the one in question failed!! Some people just can't see what we see. All we can do is advise the best we can.  



    Cary Weaver
    cary.weaver@owenscorning.com
    DoUSeeGreen.com
    Predictive Technician
    Thermology L3


  •  02-12-2008, 8:16 AM 1154 in reply to 1152

    Re: Xformer Bushing

    Attachment: transformer.jpg

     

    As you well know, Jeff, you are in a tough position. I call it the "dentist syndrome" because few of us want to go to take care of our teeth (or listen to their thermographer!) until we are in pain and then we can't get in that chair soon enough. 

     

    I hope you are documenting your findings in writing, being careful, of course to stay within the limits of your expertise and liability (you HAVE consulted your attorney I hope!).  It may also pay just to be straight out with they person(s) and say something like "Listen, I really think this is serious. Can we go to your manager together and discuss my concerns?" You may then want to consider some sort of simple demonstration, i.e. the Princess and the "thermal pea" sort of thing that clearly shows the relationship between what you are seeing with what you are not seeing. Perhaps you could also find a few photographs of transformer failures to bring along—they are generally not very pretty.

     

    An old friend (and great thermographer) at a GM plant would always insist in these situations that his findings be confirmed back in writing ("avoid verbal orders") and found that alone—the act of requiring some person to sign off—to get action in most cases.

     

    Keep us posted. 

     



    Thermally Yours,

    John
    ASNT NDT Level III #48166
    The Snell Group
    www.thesnellgroup.com
    www.thermalsolutions.org
    800-636-9820
  •  02-12-2008, 1:41 PM 1155 in reply to 1154

    Re: Xformer Bushing

    John, 

    Thanks for the good advice, by the way my wife is an attorney so she advises me both as a wife & attorney(enough said) . Found a scary picture, it's not quite the same but speaks volumes. Maybe you have something better to share than the image I dug up online.



    Jeff Gadd
    Vision Infrared Services
    www.visioninfrared.com
  •  03-06-2008, 10:48 PM 1212 in reply to 1152

    Re: Xformer Bushing

    Jeff,

    Nice find!  I'm not sure if you are still following this thread, but if you are, I have a few thoughts I'd like to offer you as well.

     Documentation is critical here.  Many companies have infrared surveys performed to reduce their insurance premiums.  Unfortunately, if the time comes that the equipment has a catastrophic failure, the insurance company will be very reluctant to cover avoidable losses.  If you have reported this loss for a period of time, this damage will most likely be considered avoidable.  If you have not documented this problem, the insurance company will want to know why you did not, and your professional image will be tarnished as a minimum.  Whether the insurance company pays or not, the premiums may increase because the customer is proving themselves to be a greater risk by thier non-responsiveness.

     Help your customer understand that your "find" is in a failure mode already.  Repairs at this time will be much lower than at some future date.  The longer this is allowed to run in this condition, the worse the damage and the greater the expense to repair (or eventually replace).  Also, your client may not have considered the ramifications of an unplanned, disorganized outage that may result from a catastrphic failure of this transformer.  Reluctance to properly respond to the information you provide incurs costs that may not have been considered.  Often there are safety and environmental concerns that are overlooked.  Usually, there are also production and quality control costs that should be included in their decision-making process.

     Another concern you should have is that the temperature and the delta-T at the source (often a high-resistance connection) may be significantly higher than is apparent from the bushing.  While 27-F may not seem high to your client, the delta-T at the source could easily be >100-F.  If your client could see that measurement their response might have more urgency.

    I believe there are images of a pole transformer (inside & out) in the gallery that help to show the importance of early detection/early response.

    Good luck with your efforts.  Thank you for your professionalism in approaching this problem.  We, ultimately, are responsible in great part for the image of thermographers in the world of maintenance and reliability.  Keep up the good work.


    MJJ
  •  03-11-2008, 11:51 AM 1221 in reply to 1212

    Re: Xformer Bushing

    Michael,

    Thanks for the kind words. I always try to exceed my customers expectations which is why they always call back or at least thats what I tell myself. I need to touch base with these folks to see if they have made any progress as far as corrective action.  I will try to find some more info or images to try to drive the point home. The manager I deal with has a good understanding of the situation but the top brass aren't on board with a planned outage, as we all know it's coming whether they plan it or not.

     The last report I gave them in Jan. 08 had these comments as well as a Critical rating:

    Temperature delta/rise has increased 7F since July 07 inspection. This is a very serious matter, recommend DGA until shut down & repairs can be made.

     

    I'll keep you all posted,


    Jeff Gadd
    Vision Infrared Services
    www.visioninfrared.com
  •  08-14-2008, 8:26 AM 1801 in reply to 1152

    Re: Xformer Bushing

    Attachment: XfmrBushing.bmp

    All,

    Here is again! Delta up to 37F now. No action sice I was there last time. Tick..tick.......tick. John, I hope this messageboard stuff is all archived......I made need it when this goes to court.

     

    Take care,

    JG



    Jeff Gadd
    Vision Infrared Services
    www.visioninfrared.com
  •  08-14-2008, 8:58 AM 1803 in reply to 1801

    Re: Xformer Bushing

    A regular dissolved gas analysis (DGA) test would be useful as it would almost certainly show how bad things have gotten. The temperature alone, given the large thermal gradient involved, is a pretty good indicator that Trouble is ahead. I trust YOUR documents are also all in order in case they are needed later?!
    Thermally Yours,

    John
    ASNT NDT Level III #48166
    The Snell Group
    www.thesnellgroup.com
    www.thermalsolutions.org
    800-636-9820
  •  08-14-2008, 10:59 AM 1804 in reply to 1803

    Re: Xformer Bushing

    Attachment: NewFuse.bmp

    Thanks John,

     I've told them to do DGA everytime and again this time until repairs can be made. You are correct, MY documents(4 findings over the last 2yrs) should be sufficient but this site made me think it would be a good reference as well.  We will see what happens.

    Another note:

    When I see a new fuse in place it always is a red flag to me. I bet people change these fuses all the time and have no idea why they fail.

     



    Jeff Gadd
    Vision Infrared Services
    www.visioninfrared.com
  •  08-15-2008, 7:53 AM 1809 in reply to 1804

    Re: Xformer Bushing

    Jeff -

    I may be able to share some simplified calculations with you from papers I have presented that show the relationship between visible temperature rise and internal temperature rise for a hypothethical, simple, and small piece of equipment.  They are NOT suitable for court or anything like court, but may get the attention of your client. 

    There are a lot of images available on the net showing exploded or failed transformers.  Do a search and send them a file.  Or better, send them a hard copy certified return receipt requested. 

    If you want to discuss the use of the papers, contact me offline.

    Jack

     


    Jack M. Kleinfeld, P.E.
    Kleinfeld Technical Services, Inc.
    Bronx, NY
    718-884-6644
    JKEngineer@KleinfeldTechnical.com
    come see what we can do for you: http://www.KleinfeldTechnical.com

  •  09-25-2008, 2:22 PM 1964 in reply to 1153

    Maint Tech Magazine

    Attachment: DiscInfrared.png

    Cary,

    Congrats, I see you are famous-- as I'm sure you know you are on the back cover of my(everyone elses)  Maintenance Technology mag. I'm sure the good people at Flir appreciate the testimonial too.

    Jeff



    Jeff Gadd
    Vision Infrared Services
    www.visioninfrared.com
  •  09-28-2008, 9:22 AM 1979 in reply to 1964

    • Cary is not online. Last active: 03-14-2010, 10:01 AM Cary
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 07-27-2007
    • Owens Corning Plant#1571
    • Posts 75

    Re: Maint Tech Magazine

    Thanks Jeff,

      We haven't recieved that at the plant yet, but I'm sure it is in the mail. I was wondering when it would be out. These camera's that we use (you and I) these days are getting more and more useful and the "Bean counter" is very happy. I really wanna check out the new GasPro. Looks sweet!!

    Thanks again.  


    Cary Weaver
    cary.weaver@owenscorning.com
    DoUSeeGreen.com
    Predictive Technician
    Thermology L3


  •  09-28-2008, 7:31 PM 1981 in reply to 1979

    • Cary is not online. Last active: 03-14-2010, 10:01 AM Cary
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 07-27-2007
    • Owens Corning Plant#1571
    • Posts 75

    Re: Maint Tech Magazine

    Not the GasPro but the GasFinder camera. Does anyone have expierence w/it??
    Cary Weaver
    cary.weaver@owenscorning.com
    DoUSeeGreen.com
    Predictive Technician
    Thermology L3


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