Hi!

I've just joined this forum,

I'm contemplating as to which imager should I choose. I've done a detailed spec comparison between the two after discussing with both their technical personnels.

Pricewise both are about the same as the FLIR guy is willing to drop his price. So, price is not an issue here. 

Both have the same NETD so both are equal here.

Both offer the same type of detector.

The FLIR guy said export license will be required if the device refresh rate exceeds 9Hz. So, I suppose the detector refresh rate for the FLIR imager is the same as that of the FLUKE's imager and that is 9Hz

One big problem with the FLUKE imager is its weight - 1200g vs FLIR's 600g.

Next big problem with the FLUKE imager is its accuracy if taking a measurement beyond 3m assuming the object is still larger than the screen cursor as according to the FLUKE guy. FLIR guy said his set is not affected by distance provided the object is larger than the screen cursor. Anybody wants to confirm this?

FLIR imager has a longer battery life, a laser pointer and a flashlight for use in dim area

FLIR's IR and visual resolutions are better than FLUKE. FOV is larger for FLIR too.

FLIR's minimum focus distance for thermal and visible are better than FLUKE

FLUKE imager has more color palettes than FLIR's imager.

FLUKE also comes with voice annotation.

FLUKE has tested its imager through a drop test.

and a few more etc etc

 Anything I've missed out that deserve to mention?

I've played with the FLIR set for a short time at the shop and have not try out the FLUKE set. I did, however, tried the FLUKE Ti10

Can users feedback on their ACTUAL performance?

 Thank you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good morning.  It might help to know what your application is.

 For example, if you don't need temp measurement above 100C/212F, then the Fluke TiR1 would be a better fit than the Ti25.  Not only is it less expensive, but its NETD is 0.07 I believe.

I'm not sure who advised you regarding the Fluke's accuracy beyond 3m.  I've used the unit at those distances with surface thermistor reference points and haven't had any issues.

When I was comparing imagers, the fellow trying to sell me the FLIR had all sorts of things bad to say about the Fluke device.  When I checked out the claims, I didn't see the basis for the comments.  I went with a Ti25 for my application.  I don't have any experience with FLIR's post sales support, but the Fluke folks have been pretty good to deal with.

 Cheers

-john

Welcome to IRTalk. I trust you will find it of value. If you were buying a car and comparing two different brands, I'd tell you that either would get you where you are going—that's good news. I'd also ask you "Where ARE you going?" as one might get you their in more style, more economically, faster, etc. than the other if I knew that!

Regardless I will tell you it is not a good idea to buy based on specifications alone, especially when you don't fully understand them. Consider taking the Online/On Demand webinar I have recorded about buying a camera http://www.thesnellgroup.com/CourseDetails.aspx?id=30

I would urge you to try both systems before you buy either one. And then, know that you will like some things about one and other things about the other; chances are also good you will not like something about both of them!

Let us know a bit more about what you want to use the system for and we may be able to give you some feedback that is more appropriate. 

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Thermally Yours,

John
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
The Snell Group
www.thesnellgroup.com
www.thermalsolutions.org
800-636-9820

Hi!

Thanks for the reply. 

I'll test the mentioned imagers and return to give my opinions. In addition, I'll clarify the technical spec further.

Meantime if users have actual hands-on with the mentioned imagers please do not hesitate to post your experience here. I'll be watching the posts here.

Thank you 

 

Both work very well. I've used them extensively in the field and, given the choice, would use either. Sensitivity is immense for buildings work while the number of pixels—to a point—is less important for residential work (I'd stick with 120x120 or higher). For maintenance, 100mK is very adequate and, while more pixels is better, both these systems are what I would term "comparable" (but then I am not selling them!) Image quality is more subjective and cannot really be specified based on pixel count and sensitivity; carefully look at the image on the screen under field conditions (in various palettes) as well as downloaded to the computer AND printed. 

Beware that some "features," as defined by sales and marketing, may not end up being very useful. Batteries, for instance: I think a good case can be made for either removable or not removable. Run time and charge time are more important in my experience and both these systems work well despite the differences. Both have "illuminators" which work well. I am not a big fan of laser pointers as I consider them an oft-misused hazard as much as a useful tool. FOV has tradeoffs too with no "right" single answer; both can work."FLIR's IR and visual resolutions are better than FLUKE": I suggest you set this distinction aside until after you have used both in the field as I don't think you'll find either wanting. Ditto on weight! While weight is not unimportant, ergonomics is more crucial and both these systems work well. The drop test is a difference, though I don't recommend dropping any camera regularly unless you are a sales guy trying to convince a customer. Typically for buildings and maintenance work minimum focus is not too important for either IR or visible. Voice annotation can be an awesome feature, IF it fits into your protocol and you use it correctly; a deal breaker? Probably not. The issue of temperature measurement resolution is more complex than I'd like to get into in this posting; suffice to say that both systems have limits and in both cases the limits are similar in terms of actually using them in the field.

 

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Thermally Yours,

John
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
The Snell Group
www.thesnellgroup.com
www.thermalsolutions.org
800-636-9820

You might also want to check out both companies software as well as software pricing, and upgrade policies.

Your drop rating comment is very real, and depending on your environment its durability should be a consideration.

As John said you really should use both units before buying.  The Ti-10 is very similiar to the Ti-25 in looks and some features.  Even though their resoultion is the same the NETD is 100% better on the Ti-25.  Auto Hi low spot meters are a nice features as well.  The i60 and Ti25 both have the hi low feature. 

-No area min/max on the Ti25 (area box mode)

-Actual usable screen area is larger on the Ti25

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Specialty Products
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Infrared Cameras
Fluke Ti25 Thermal Imager

FLIR i60 Infrared Camera

Fluke Ti55 Infrared Camera

Retrotec Q46 Blower Door

Energy Audit Talk

 

Hi!

Just a quick reply. I was testing with the Ti10 at the FLUKE shop earlier on when I realized that it was damn heavy after holding with one hand for a short while. 

My experience with holding a pair of 900g binos with both hands also confirm this. Weight is indeed important if I need to hold the imager for a long period. I suppose you don't hold the imager with both hands, right?

I believe I do not want to drop such an expensive item (not intentionally and as far as my budget allows) and as such extra precautions will have to be taken in using it. The best is for me not to loan the set to others.

There's another thing about the thermal image. The FLIR's thermal image is scalable while the FLUKE is not. However, the FLUKE's thermal image blends (see through). Any comment on each strengths/weaknesses on this?

Also, FLUKE imager do not have a visual image mode i.e. it comes with IR, IR + visual modes. The  FLIR imager comes with IR, visual & IR + visual modes.

Yes, FLUKE comes with a 3.6" screen as compared to FLIR's 3.5" screen

Anybody knows

FLUKE 3.6" color LCD with 640 x 480 screen comes in how many colors?

FLIR's 3.5" color LCD screen with 256K colors come in what screen size?

 

Thanks

Hi!

 I forsee a need for application above 100 deg C

I was informed by the guy selling the FLUKE imager regarding the 3m accuracy thing. I'll need to verify this again with their technical specialist

Travelmate:

Yes, FLUKE comes with a 3.6" screen as compared to FLIR's 3.5" screen

Anybody knows

FLUKE 3.6" color LCD with 640 x 480 screen comes in how many colors?

FLIR's 3.5" color LCD screen with 256K colors come in what screen size?

 

Thanks

Not sure if you were referring to my post.  What I meant was usable area.  You would have to put the two of them side by side to really see what I am talking about. 

Ultimately if weight is a big concern to you, then you have already bought an i60.  There is no go around for the weight factor.

Here is yet another item to make your decision harder, hehe.  http://assets.fluke.com/thermalimaging/ti25.html?trck=ti25wins Granted this is published by Fluke, so it is going to be bias towards the Ti25, but the facts of the video are true.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Specialty Products
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Infrared Cameras
Fluke Ti25 Thermal Imager

FLIR i60 Infrared Camera

Fluke Ti55 Infrared Camera

Retrotec Q46 Blower Door

Energy Audit Talk

 

Hi John,

 

Since you've used both imagers extensively can you comment on the software like

a) which gives more detail analysis and reporting features

b) which software is easier to use

c) how many additional color palettes does each software comes with as the color palettes is limited on the imager itself?

d) what additional features each software has that is not present in the other?

 

Thank you

a) which gives more detail analysis and reporting features

Very simular.

b) which software is easier to use.

Personal perference, but I think quickreport is easier, smartview opens a new window to analyse, and I dont like this.

c) how many additional color palettes does each software comes with as the color palettes is limited on the imager itself?

Fluke smartview has 8 palettes, although two of them are just inverted.

Flir quickreport has ten pallettes, one is inverted, but extra palettes can be easily added, if you have more and know how to do this.

d) what additional features each software has that is not present in the other?

Smartview has a 3d feature, which most thermographers will not use, unless you are working in R&D. It also has a histogram.

Quickreport has insulation alarm and dew point alarm.

www.thermalvision.ie

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Bob Berry
BINDT, IRT Level 3 EL, Level 3 CV (ISO 18436)
Thermal Vision
8 Old Fair Green
Dunboyne
Co Meath
Ireland
bob"at"thermalvision"dot"ie
www.thermalvision.ie

Quote

"Jason 

Not sure if you were referring to my post.  What I meant was usable area.  You would have to put the two of them side by side to really see what I am talking about. 

Ultimately if weight is a big concern to you, then you have already bought an i60.  There is no go around for the weight factor."

 

I just have another round of further discussion with the tech reps of both sides. I was also offered a chance to try the 2 imagers together. Well, I'll do it when time is available.

As to the weight of the FLUKE imager I was told that the yellow holster is user removable so the weight can be reduced. By how much I'm not sure. However, drop protection will not be there.

 

 

What you will find with any camera, regardless of weight, is that it is important to be able to use it in a number of different positions rather than the one you may first use. I use all cameras in either or both hands, sometimes gripping the handle, while other times the screen. To hold any system gripped like a pistol is asking for a repetitive stress injury.

---

Thermally Yours,

John
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
The Snell Group
www.thesnellgroup.com
www.thermalsolutions.org
800-636-9820