I am using a blower door to find air leaks and to quantify the amount of air loses. I works very well, but I wish I had a thermal imaging camera to see air bypasses and gaps in the thermal barrier.

I went through the Snell online Training class to get an IR equipment overview. Very good training. ==> Let me know when you have training classes in the NYC area in the near future.... ;-)

Now I am in process finding the best thermal imaging camera for my money to speed up air sealing work.

What think I will need is:

- Sturdy and not too big tool to be used in tight attic spaces, crawlspaces and outside of the building.

- Sensitive enough to show air flowing behind a wall (all year around!)

I think I may need at least 70-100K to see enough air flowing behind walls? I would like use the camera all year around if possible. My location is near New York City. By using a blower door I can either move massive amounts of air into the house or out of the house.

I am thinking to buy a Fluke TiR for about $4000. Good or bad idea?

You have a few options if you truly want to stay below 5k.  The Fluke TiR, as you have already mentioned, and the FLIR B40.  If you are looking to get below the 100mk level you would have to move up to the Fluke TiR1 or FLIR B60.

Are you planning on strictly using your camera in your energy auditing business?  Many people buy a camera for their current business, which is correct thinking, but infrared fills many more applications than just one.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
HotShot Hi-Rez Infrared Cameras

Fluke TiR1 Resources

FLIR B60 Resources

Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

 

Jason,

Currently I will only use it for energy remedy work. My goal is to find quickly large air leaks deep inside the house structure. The second task will  be inhouse quality control after insulation work has been completed. Therefore I will be the only person seeing the pictures.

My main concern is that I will not been able to see these air leaks with a lower end thermal imaging device. But I am hoping that the blower door will offset the lack of IR sensibility by moving large amounts of air and increase the contrast. Does anybody in this forum have experience in air sealing / air leakage diagnostics?

Other issues ..

I may use it to perform home energy audits, but I will not be able to charge for it. Here in the NY Westchester area too many "Energy Auditors" are offering walk through assessment for $0, $49 or $99. 

From my point of view its not worth it to buy a better camera, because 

a) The unit will be outdated the day I buy it and I plan to keep my device for maximal 2 years.

b) I can not charge for that service, since competition is offering it for free, or for less then $100 a visit.

c) There is always a better device with better features and functions.

d) I need to learn the basics, before I focus towards a better, specialized device.

 

We deal with a lot of energy auditors.  They are getting reimbursed through state programs for each audit, that is why they can do the audits for next to nothing.  Another tid bit of info for you since you are in NY.  There is a 20% reimbursement program that I know of for BPI or Resnet contractors in that state. You get BPI / Resnet certified, you buy energy auditing equipment (infrared is included), you do one job.  The state program auditor then comes out and inspects your job and takes pictures of your equipment and takes a copy of your receipt.  You then get reimbursed 20% of the cost of the equipment.

You should really consider infrared as another business.  Many of my customers buy it for their own applications, then find out there are many more applications,  many times more profitable than their primary application.  I think you already took the building infrared class, but was it through Snell or equiviliant, or something else?  If you are serious about infrared take level I, and plan on eventually taking level II.

So in time you would be an energy auditor and a thermographier.  Even though infrared can be used during an energy audit, it really is its own stand alone business on top of your current business.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
HotShot Hi-Rez Infrared Cameras

Fluke TiR1 Resources

FLIR B60 Resources

Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

 

Jason,

I am a BPI contractor. There is a 20% discount on equipment, but infrared is excluded.

BK

Here is a link to Level 1 courses for the rest of the year. You can go through the list to see which one will fit your needs. As Jason has said IR is a standalone business and goes hand in hand with your blower door. If you have a good business plan put together IR can take you in many different directions and can be very profitable. Gives us a call if we can help you out on your venture.

http://www.thesnellgroup.com/training-schedule.aspx?category=1

 Regards

---

Jeremy Kays Reliability Technician
Level II IR, MCA / UE Level I, In Compliance with the ASNT guidelines
X-Ray Eyes
xrayeyesjl@hotmail.com
www.xrayeyesonline.com

BKSolutionsllc:

Jason,

I am a BPI contractor. There is a 20% discount on equipment, but infrared is excluded.

Yeah you are correct, I worded that funny. 

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
HotShot Hi-Rez Infrared Cameras

Fluke TiR1 Resources

FLIR B60 Resources

Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

 

Where do you contact this individual at in order to receive a reimbursement on equipment and do you have to do a HERS Rating for them to see.

 

Mic

mic:

Where do you contact this individual at in order to receive a reimbursement on equipment and do you have to do a HERS Rating for them to see.

 

Mic

Yes you have to do a job first.  You have to go through training, buy the equipment, then do a job.  They come out and take pictures of your job, and equipment and submit it. 

I also found a 50% one in NJ today.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Sales
877/207-1244
AC Tool Supply
Fluke Thermal Imagers
FLIR Thermal Imagers
HotShot Hi-Rez Infrared Cameras

Fluke TiR1 Resources

FLIR B60 Resources

Retrotec Duct & Blower Door

 

Mic,

In my case you have to a BPI contractor. I could pick items from a list of predefined tools like a blower door, CO-meter etc. They don't tell you where to buy it, but what you can buy. After you have become an independant NYSERDA contractor you have 12 months to purchase your items.

Once you purchase all the items....

I had to submit all my receipts to my local NYSERDA contact. He/she then comes by and physically inspects the presence off all items. They even take pictures... ;-)  A couple months later you get a check in the mail for 20% of the total, maximum x dollars. Sorry can not remember the exact amount, but I think the maximum is around $800.  IR-equipement is specifically EXCLUDED! They don't want to pay for it, because the correctly say you can not quantify anything with a thermal imager, execpt temperature differences. Which is not a BPI requirement. As an example; The blower door tells how many CFM air losses you have in a house. CO meter how many ppm etc. The thermal imaging device shows nice pictures and points you right to the problem, but you can not say there is R-3 or R-7 insulation in the wall. Correct? What you could say is... the wall is empty, or badly insulated, but that's it. We we can estimate that and confirm it with an energy model. So NYSERDA is not willing to pay for such a nice tool. Its also not part of the BPI requirements to conduct home energy assessments. Believe me I tried... many times to change their mind.

Kind regards,

Bernhard

 

 

I have the camera and I did the HERS. What I didn't know was the backend costs of the HERS end of it all, Provider cost, flying a guy in for QA,  (must have gone to the bathroom for that one). insurance, etc. I'd like to get the Blower Door, Duct blaster and accessories, but I'd like to sure of my future costs. Whew!!!

So you're saying I should give NYSERDA a call after my purchase and rating. I don't have to pay them to QA my job also do I. LOL.

Mic

Mic,

I don't think they support HERS. But check with them. Don't buy until they tell you you can. Its a very strict program.

They do quality control, but you don't pay for the audit... and they check everything. I got a comment in my audit report, because I did not file my paper work correctly... so it is not only how well you do your job in the field, but also how well you handle the mountains of paper work.  

 

Good luck

Bernhard

My Fluke TiR Hands-on results..

Today I had a chance to play with the FLUKE TiR camera. Great picture, easy to use, but very heavy on the top. My hand hurts after 10 minutes! Now I am not sure if I should buy it any more...  ;-((   and I thought my search was over.

What are the typical release dates for new FLUKE and FLIR models? 

Did anybody check out the NEC F30?

This response is not unusual even for folks first using much lighter weight systems. The beauty of the TiR is that it allows tremendous flexibility in the way it is held and used, though often this comes only after a period of time getting used to it. That said, you should look at other systems too so that YOU are comfortable in the end. Any other TiR users who can chime in here??

---

Thermally Yours,

John
ASNT NDT Level III #48166
The Snell Group
www.thesnellgroup.com
www.thermalsolutions.org
800-636-9820

I highly recommend you look at the FLIR cameras as well.    It is one thing to try to compare specifications on a piece of paper, try to justify why it is OK to be top heavy, not have an easy way to change and charge batteries, etc...but the best idea is to take a look at both cameras and decide once you have had a chance to find what is most effective and easiest to use.   I would highly recommend you get a demo of the b40 if you are comparing to the TiR.  

Where are you located?  I can get you a contact of someone who would be happy to show you the FLIR camera for comparison.

---

Brad Risser
FLIR Systems
866-837-3244